On a cold and rainy night in March, at the end of what seems like a perennial winter, I sat at a cafe on the corner of Flushing and Wilson in Bushwick and shared a coffee with Maddy Van Buren, the girlfriend of folk hero and former fugitive William Banks.

On March 20th, Banks was apprehended once more by the NYPD and is now facing multiple charges in both New York and Connecticut. Van Buren and Banks’s longtime creative partner, John Filmanowicz, filmed the arrest and have been managing Banks’s social media while he’s in custody.

Just a week before the arrest, we had reported on the welcome-home party thrown for William at Mi Sabor Cafe on Broadway, an article that now serves as a vestige of a happier and more hopeful time.

The following conversation has been edited for length and clarity:

Cait Flynn: Let’s get started. Maddy Van Buren, thank you so much. 

Maddy Van Buren: Thank you. 

CF: Well let’s just take it from the time you two meet until his most recent arrest to start and we can go from there.

MVB: OK

CF: So, you met while he was hitchhiking after the escape from prison? 

MVB: Yeah. 

CF: And you said you were in Pennsylvania at the time? 

MVB: Yeah. 

CF: And so how did he get from Connecticut to Pennsylvania? Just hitchhiking? 

MVB: Yeah. I know that at one point, he was in a gas station bathroom and he was hiding out there. And then I think he was just moving from place to place. By the time I found him, he was kind of on a very desolate street. He didn’t look dangerous to me. He looked sad, and he looked like he needed help. And so I wanted to be able to help him.

CF: Was he by himself? 

MVB: Yeah. Yeah. And I wasn’t fully aware of anything really about him. So me picking him up was very much just genuinely wanting to be a good person and help someone, and obviously he’s a charmer. So I got to know him.

CF: I want to talk a bit about his most recent arrest. The welcome-home party happened on Friday the 14th and it was a few days after that someone tipped off the police and he was arrested again. 

MVB: Exactly

CF: And so can you tell us just a little bit about what happened that day? What were you out there doing? 

MVB: Yeah. So it was actually just John [Filmanowicz], me and William, and we wanted to do another photo shoot like the one that we’d previously done. 

MVB: Yes, and after the success of the party and everything else, you know I get it, there’s a lot of eyes on him. But what happened was, we were just minding our business fully and and I think William figured it out sooner because he was like, ‘I’m gonna walk this way,’ and I’m like, ‘why are you going to walk that way?’ and then I realized there’s like some cop cars, and then within like minutes, they swarmed. 

And that’s pretty much what I had posted, which was mostly John filming, but then yeah they took him to central booking. 

CF: What were they saying during the arrest? Were they sharing what he was being arrested for?  Did they talk to you or John about anything? 

MVB: So they weren’t saying anything at the time. They took our information, but they weren’t really letting us speak to him, that sort of thing. He was charged with possession of a weapon, because he had a weapon on him, and he was also charged with, I don’t know the formal name for it, but, like, escaping, like that kind of thing. 

CF: Is he up in Connecticut now? 

MVB: No, he’s in Rikers now. 

CF: Oh, shit. 

MVB: Yeah, because the possession of a weapon was here in New York, right? And he already had an outstanding charge, so they took him there. So I haven’t been able to speak to him very much because they didn’t even give him a phone call. 

CF: Wow, God. 

MVB: Yeah at central booking they gave him, like, a court appointed lawyer, all those things. So there’s still a lot up in the air right now. But, yeah, I have not spoken to him a lot. 

CF: So he hasn’t had an arraignment? They haven’t, you know, filed the charges formally. He’s just in the holding cell at this point. 

MVB: I’m not really, like, well versed in how everything works

CF: Plus you haven’t been able to talk to him. 

MVB: Right, yeah. They didn’t allow him to have his phone call. 

CF: So how have you been able to talk with him?

MVB: I spoke to him very briefly when he got transferred to Rikers. It was a very, very short phone call. It was just one. And I just told him that I loved him, and I want him to be strong. And he told me that, you know, he has faith. He believes in God. He believes that this will pass and some better things are coming for him. 

And I believe that, too. So I think at this point, we’re all just hoping that well, number one, we’re hoping the charges are dropped. And number two, we’re hoping that a miracle can happen. 

CF: So how long after you guys met did he tell you why he was on that road? Why he had been to prison, why he escaped. How quickly did you know the whole story? 

MVB: William’s a talker. He’s going to tell you straight up. And he told me very early on, and I didn’t understand any of it until he was showing me his phone. He was showing me videos and pictures of his cellmates and things like that. And so very early on is the answer. 

CF: And so how did that feel to take all that on? Have you ever been with anybody who had been in prison or arrested before?

MVB: I famously date dangerous men. I famously love a bad man.

CF: Famously

MVB: But scratch that. William’s a good man. 

CF: He’s a good man, but a bad boy. 

MVB: A bad boy, right. Yeah. I love bad boys. And I think that’s what William has proved himself to be bad in the eyes of the law, but not in the eyes of God. He’s a bad boy in the eyes of the law. He’s a good boy in the eyes of the Lord. And I fully believe that. 

That’s the kind of man that I like. So, you know, him having past charges didn’t really phase me. It hurts that I’m not able to be with him now, but I don’t believe he did anything wrong. 

CF: Right. 

CF: And what about the initial larceny charge in Connecticut? Stealing pro-Israeli lawn signs from people’s yards. 

MVB: I mean, free Palestine. Yeah. You know I think what he did was courageous. I think more people should stand up for what they believe in the way he has. In terms of the Israel-Palestine conflict and in terms of the religious war that’s been waged on our society. So I fully 100% back him. And that was one of the things that really drew me to him in the beginning, because it’s not like he shot somebody. He did sort of an act of valor in my eyes. 

CF: William’s arrest and escape were both very viral moments. Luigi Mangione is in prison, and every time he ever has an appearance in court, there are swathes of women looking to show support for him. Why do you think women are attracted to criminals? Why do we like the bad boys? 

MVB: Hmm I think everybody always wants to be with someone who maybe could seem bad to the world. But is good to you. I think if you’ve ever seen the way that William interacts with me, he’s very gentle. He’s very loving. He’s a generous lover. He’s kind. He always makes me smile. And he values what I value. So, maybe to the outside world, he is a criminal. Maybe to the outside world, he is wrong. But to me and to God, he is righteous. 

CF: Why do you feel like people have attached themselves to William? Seems like everyone is talking about William Banks and so why do you think he has resonated with so many people? 

MVB: You know, because he’s someone who, when he wants to do something and when he has goals, he achieves them. He sets out to do something and he does it right. Obviously, he wanted to show that he believes in a free and safe land for all Palestinians. And so, he tears down the lawn signs. You know? He doesn’t doesn’t want to be in jail anymore for what he believes is an unjust charge, so he escapes, right? He wants something, he gets it. And I think that’s very powerful. 

CF: Yeah

MVB: And he wanted a girlfriend. He wanted a wife. And it just so happens that around the time that he was praying for that and wanting that, it was then that we crossed paths. And I just think he is a sort of mystical figure in that way, and so I don’t have any doubt that people are attracted to that.

CF: You mentioned he wanted a girlfriend and a wife. Are you guys getting married? 

MVB: I couldn’t say. I think that whatever the future holds for William and I, it will be God’s plan. I want to let go and let God when it comes to matters of the heart. 

CF: If the worst case scenario happens and he is resentenced to that time in Connecticut, plus the gun charge plus the escaping from prison, do you see yourself having a jailhouse wedding? 

MVB: I would do anything for him. He is my ride or die. If he wanted that, I would be open to that. And I’m going to stick by him, you know? I have been trying to be in contact with him as much as I can. And, you know, this interview is just about making sure that people remember that he is here. He is fighting. He is a warrior of God, and we need to pray for him. Pray for his safe release. 

CF: Are you a believer yourself? 

MVB: I am, yeah. I grew up believing in God and believing in angels and believing in divine intervention. And it feels that all of those things have come together in a way that makes a lot of sense now that I’ve met William. 

CF: I find the attraction to this story has a lot to do with the idea that he’s eradicating atheism, he’s combating atheists, he’s bringing all the Abrahamic religions together to join in an army that serves one true God. Do you feel like that religion and belief in God is missing in society now? Is that something that we’re looking for and so we’re gravitating towards people like William? 

MVB: I think if people are looking at William, then yes. He is filling that God shaped hole by making sure God enters the cultural lexicon once more. And that’s something that I find really appealing about him. And the most interesting thing about him. 

CF: Do you think that all of this media attention is helpful? For somebody who looks as distinctly as William does, it’s not crazy imagining someone seeing him across the street and immediately recognizing him. After the photoshoot taunting the police, telling the NYPD to ‘come and get’ him, after having advertised and then thrown a public party in his name. 

MVB: Yeah

CF: And seeing that it all ultimately lead to his arrest, do you feel, at this point, like the attention that this is getting is something that has been helpful to him, or do you think he might have been perhaps hoist by his own petard? 

MVB: I think it will be helpful in the grand scheme of things, in the larger plan of what William wants for the world, which is what you had previously mentioned, eradicating atheism, moving toward a free Palestine. All of these larger goals that don’t necessarily concern just himself. William is bigger than just himself. He is an idea. He is a figurehead to a movement. And I think that in that way, jail will do nothing to stop that. Time will do nothing to stop that. 

CF: You know, that’s actually interesting that you bring that up because I have a friend who doesn’t really get the whole deal with William, and so when we published the story covering the party, she reached out to me and was like, ‘this guy seems like a cult leader.’ 

What would you say to someone like that? And if he is stepping into this figurehead position, this idea and leader of a movement, do you think that’s antithetical to serving a monotheistic God?

MVB: I don’t. I definitely don’t see William as anything negative. I only see William Banks as a positive figure. And I believe that cult members and cult leaders are negative figures. So I can’t say that in any way he reminds me of a cult leader, I would say that he is a leader and a hero, and maybe closer to a Robin Hood figure, rather than something of a Charles Manson. 

CF: What can people who support William and his cause do to help right now?

MVB: I think that they should be reposting and sharing what William has previously posted and what I posted for him. I know when this article drops, hopefully soon, I hope that people will share it, and I hope that people will share my content, especially as William’s girlfriend, even if the content is not about him. I think it’s important for people to be sharing my content. 

CF: Is there anything else? 

MVB: We’ve been talking about setting up a bail fund, you know, maybe selling more t-shirts to do that. You know, doing stuff for Palestinian aid. So there’s a lot of things, I think, in the works. William, even if he is behind bars, he’s not tied down. 

CF: Hmm!

MVB: He’s never going to be locked up spiritually. He is always on the move, and he is always thinking.

CF: Does he have any figures in history that he looks towards like Bobby Sands, Nelson Mandela, people who have been put into prison for being these figures within a greater movement? Are there people that he’s like finding comfort in, or maybe spiritual writers or anything like that that he’s been gravitating towards? 

MVB: Yeah, I think every single person who has ever escaped jail for an unjust crime is probably someone that he looks up to. I know that obviously he is so adverse, sorry, well-versed in the Bible and all of the teachings of so many religions that any spiritual figure he can find goodness in. I haven’t talked about this with him in so much depth, but I think that he finds inspiration everywhere in his life as a true thought leader and a true spiritual warrior. 

CF: Is there anything else that you’d like me to include, or anything else that you’d want to talk about before we finish up? 

MVB: I’m just keeping up the good fight for William. I’m just trying to do right by him. Yeah. You know, that’s all you can do. 

CF: You know, at the end of the day, all you can do is what you can. 

MVB: Absolutely. 

CF: Well, thank you so much. 
MVB: Yeah. Of course. Appreciate you.